>> why did she write this ook bt boec i wee fimen.. i think that the history is important. i was a history major. when you women today at "newsweek" find out about our story i lened that they were the only ones, hei s. ey now find issues because histormakes a difference. you can't really look forward without understanding where you come from. >> we've been talking th foly"eseom "eswek, "the good girls revolt" is the name of the boat, "the good girls revolt: how the women of newsweek sued their bosses and changethe workplace." thank you for being with us here on c-span booktv. >> you areagee bexme. puhi industries trade show. for more information visit book

expo america.com. prtsbu, nur-gbov program or invite guest host interview authors. this week, martha rosenberg exposes the croissant rehang the scenes in the drug industries in her new book called the "born with a junk food deficien." with t help of dto andseerh ok ventply deinthe public health. she discusses finance its associat editor of fda week, stephanie beasley. >> host: lt's jus tote knsd fto fascinating and full of lots and lots of information. i was curious a to whether there was any particular news events or story that ipired you to start writing his.

tho gewo ti guess n . t o rei s. were the hormone replacement and both were in early 2000. i began thinking, how did this happen? how did so manypeoplegeto cly dogowe sot kofhagot me interested in researching this staff. post go right, he worked as a journalist for several publications and listed and here worked ofitos" rnlons s arsodil copywriter if i'm not mistaken. so i'm curious how that sort of he to in researching this book. and how you sort of narrowed it down totetpics sws usera ofng u oea asb pharma. >> definitely there's aot of

ways you can pursue this. advertising on medical copywriting. i've always had an intrigue with rkng hiokveucou soh back bone as an advertising person a copywriter were challenges benefit and you y and find so thingtcnr c yel it. it went to consumer advertising th began in the late 90s. there were so many examples of really excessive drug advertising. so they have a journalist and a a copywriter. >> so, as someon who ad n veinyuau st erhich i think is pretty interesting. you start with as it appeared in the 1950s and 60s in medical journalism. i thought i was a weird place t start for one. i can jus refunde thi

yoveh n iv ei' basically advertising for medicaid and this anecdote here, there were, my husband at the peak of his career, busy, successful, but no time for e. lie ih aftrngt.n my problems i w ained. it was a catastrophe. you start out talking about these as they appeared in the medical journey is n the 50s and 60s targeting the medical doctors who are going patscribe these medications to thaps imagination and made you choose that at th beginning of this book? >> i would probably say that the polall eseven days was kind of whoever you were you had a psychological problem that called it and now they call it

something else. but that was the beginning of callinthe aintthonknt,ut they could be set kind of thing. so what we now call the seasoning because it's direct to consumer advertising. but the other thng was jus a lot of the anti-woman hg cas yet, but kind of criticized by the medical people t adjusting to chest cleaning the house or some thing. some of us talk about she wao he dishes.r oe >> okay, two things i want to talk about there. you see a lot of direct consumer has come as we see on elevision , with the drugs and obligatory bistro is whave noatutm ouhi

arladie ng >> guest: well, i think that's kind of a broad question. i think that when we take things like depression and that has clear aksdn ouut an antidepresse soap, people sort of self diagnose. so is easier when it's disease, woli s cases.d ts or even >> host: this is interesting and we just started out with as it appeared in medical journals and then goes directly to the tumor as, but why is it cheating drug companies made th transition from apaling to t doctorshmlve toh nss whaese as you mentioned about the disease mongering, what are the other dangers nvolved in genral?

>> guest: big arma went eavradie ths r really been legal, but people believed it was. it would open up to big pharma with the direction of the patient. i'm against it. gaepndodtaker andi t literally hear she is being asked, can i have this condition? i need this drug. he or she is going to say an, know, at almost pressurize is the medical professionals. and i also believe that causes people who are really fn to be not fine. >>t: isteb a beplac on physician who

see these coming and asking for medication. i guess, what is the role of responsibility. how much do you feel like his yifrtonhomc of it is choice? what kind of decisions can we make us consumers pattern may be set from what >> guest: really we are affected atk. wh wor ite advertising i put an ad for a car on my office wall because i really liked the hat and i never had liked the car, but a year after he put iti mywall i oughthac c wheopl can do is turn off their tvs. they could beware of the fact that it does get through subliminally. the responsibility is to tune

in tho esesn realze of xsgsp ta fo real reason to raise our children and raise our taxes. a lot of the volunteers actually are comfortable th the advertising and not realize t os ky le na little bit. you talked about fda and the fact that people initially thought that direct consumer has really goes and then sga cme out and guidelines in 1997 aout direct tor . wliguyoeeik a sol b pying in the snow? should there be more regulation? what can they do at this point? >> guest: that's probably the biggest question of the whole book. be the co.abouthspol

well, i would say it isn't probably fda because it has more to do with drug approvaltes ot st tomo th dtmo justice and what kind of justice is given to companies where they violate the rules like advertising specifically off label. so really what can youo anhnn & johnson. even billy hands. if they were not taken off medicare and medicaid intheir jal. were tarched off o madiference. just one thing that i started the pre-dissemination review program, which is very recent, lot certain advertisemtsy

diin oleon co cors very lucky not either referring for cbs or prescription drug for a new or expanded for an already approd product. they're also looking acertain crondusoik titeea or prescription drugs following a significant safety labeling update. what do you think about these actions th ascii is taking and also the fact that they are hainomogiogould be hd to do level and also concerned about freedom of speech i guess for an industry to if they're trying to control? >> guest: i think it's ood. i heard a lady from whom they ar lkin o he luf e rtgtegd it's just impossible to look for reach for veracity. up until now of course the ad

before they could even eview them. it's a wonderfulevelme. i'l t t a tyg thy had to have the risk. in a van that you could be one click away and then ask ea said now, you have to risk the benefit be tebal. soy se risk. but as i say, sga can't d a lot with the advertising itself because in my book i talk about the drugs and i really question whtheyere approached to begin i. 'salf fda. >> you question why they are proved to begin with. what are the issues you have in particular about the approval procs? are there particular things you would lke cange aser

el t mpe would agree a few lucky that even some of the more recent one that had been pulled, that really was a purche sector approach, but let'not sted on theopulion so the on sa a havtof a profit. i think it's kind of a poster child. i don't know if you want to talk about the drugs at i believe apedw oen fascinatg tee e' msa sls whe ere they -- now we're talking about the boy the. now they're correlated with actual asked in the, opal e i mean, why were they approved? >> host: do you have any sort

of hunches or ideas about why you think they would be approved? ow you tk about conntions between fdandrg nnh actremi be conflict of intest. also you talk about medical experts who write these articles in journals that may or may not have financial ties to the come sote s rsugs thathey're no even perhaps without them even needing to be out there, particul risk with it. what are some thoughts i guess on why this ishappening? >> guest: we i thk i y collegial. when i go to hearings and just kind of offended at how there's a real pix firewall there. we know that there's many, many people who work for government and then come back ad sqe i k e'lo it.

there's many, many medical professionals now who are paid by pharma. as you say they write the articles. and so, the whole thng i lv. ybtsp owok at sga that their mindset is that we are not judged by a how many people reject. so by definitionieon t. ththofste are and i think in many cases we see is actually better. the biggt problem with all the dangerous drugs they read about in the bok is fthi ot o ir-n a thhe oha we all really see it except for big pharma.

>> just going back to the discussion of having experts write in myjournal. reon ho oinhat kind of esthm thu mps order for you to think thatheir writings might be biased or maybe opions should be taken with a little bit of skepticism because there are, you know, you mentioned experts who hve beenpaide g tnd bu is that the same as having a financial ties? where should we be looking for this? >> i may be naïve, but i believe as aro c veasmu a f coffee -- same applies to medical professionals. well, i got an honorary but it doesn't affect my udgment. evfte otottu. bee mo taken -- even

five years ago if he took money, i believe that, you know, the financial links to the speakers re f sia ls thsodyno a check days. >> how do you deal with that when you are writing -- i'm not sure how many expertwho talked to for this book, but just in your reporting inera andwi t bsde ctn anurst t ynoe s covering. detecteople to interview people for stories, but you're worried a guess about connections to drug companies painting, how do you do with that as reporter when w mof the people were really not working for firemen appeared in some cases they're kind of anti-firemen. i have talked to someof te

fosed. who have well, just sort of there's one clue if you can look at what they had before the article. but obviously you want to knw whe paycck wcmng but of course as a journalist, you're seeking pitchers, and no, but most of my interviews in here were not with paid doctors. imiht eonon t it g onio the apa and i had some of the psychiatrists tell me that the whole group is a caribbean island to prescribe one pill. that's kind of saying reay eswesa system. so you know, i do think it's

problem, i do. >> but whore some of the peletalk to rs ? knyo b vy oe to -- i guess you are very discerning about who you want to talk to for who your reporting. where some experts are able to gain the trust us and who are willing to talk to you inoe orou t book? >> well, a lot of my research came from the original documentation, from studies in the medical journal. i would have to say alt o h cspot hhm. so they can't because they're angry and say this stuff is going on in that kind of thing. i have one story in their about eight.during texas who witnessed the clinicaltal h

reie t ata drug. some in this case again the many, many documents. but then i also interviewed fda because they had been irregularities. so i talked o b urf hbook is patience because i was beginning to get a lot of e-mails and phone calls from patients who have different effects from tser thdngutiewhe harmed is often its from an order where you never hear the stories. i was just too outrageous stories. so a lot of my sources he ar omie hs. >> host: i ave something interesting here. we were just talking about sources.

he wrote several times about sources and journalists who write about some of these tracks healk about that very piece ine rmn ey erab ifoat. have seen to be reading and thought you saw someone i actually knew, my advisor who i thought was worth reaching out to. went to the uversity of california berkeley and studied brn r atcle youwe write in here come the dilemma in "the new york times" magazine. so i asked hr because he talk about the facwe had five experts included in r st tio th ws producinghormone the therapy was not disclosed in the article. i think you talked about how yo reached out to the times and soha thoughty resns about this. ll just read a little ofha so s s aolutely

rit i should have ntiod the researchers funding connection in the story. it is such a complicated tale with many last-minute revisions as we kept trying to make it clear and more accsible for the reader. if i hady wi abom w been cutting the space that would have included a paragraph expressing my view on this matter, which is this. it is true and unsettling to many, though not all of the expes exploring menopausal depressi have receed funding om hcmomae he on exrien or perice of hundred of women who wrote to me into the times after the story ran, expessing gratitude, nor does it negate the problems of the women's health and it wisty o s.oempeou but the money connection is one more factor that should be weighed by a women making the complicated decision i was writing about.

she was taken dress-up at the time she broht it. so she reminded me how important it ito make sure cnnection as abtorheedi ea ec soncted me hersf i have two saso i could answer in the boat. i heard about her for a editor but never ma an effort to talk directly to me, which is too bad. retohratt ttheus about how yo lshou have been to the "financial times" that the expert in the article and also her, about reaching out. what is your reaction to this? >> so far, it's a ni nswer. ot tr f time i am a reader, but it is a good combo for her to say that. the five experts that she did mention tnth

t wrote the times -- the public editor, the op-ed editor. semeyoow hat's great. boat. >> but that also brings us to the topic of talking about started the hormone replacement, throblihnnaause he talk about epbe wtorn dition specifically targeted to women for osteoporosis or hormone therapy, et cetera. i'm kind of curious to how you see women being targeted as e seam chaening isn tt for a? he talk abouthe idea of trying to remain young and youthful and hormone replacement therapy tha

go int that disif rtend marketing? >> it's a very good question now becomes even not sure this wasn't happening. the sympathy messages same messages towards the men. th en.uno'sal the message is almost like he won't get old if you take these drugs. you're getting old because your hormones are making you. and your hormones are leaving you because you're getting ld. realecf .n heas, teis bee our current fee was lost on the work that many rolls her eyes. like the ad at the beginning. she has no place in sociy. so it's be hader h me 18utlh erin

until recently has been for women. the two that come to mind for me how boring hutton who used to promote thrmone replacement and more recentl wro me ht thceecr say stay pretty. yeah, how do they look like that? meeayhgis a very specific one in ounkts unfair iguess to use someone like a lauren hutton who is a former model or sally field who a lot of people have grown up with, who is this icon. seem ithaday to wom whethey tasmeeoesngt ga hg celebrities promote these different types of drugs? >> you know, they had things about that because the heart guy -- the celebrity advertising

isebeslititjustewmne everything. because if they look pretty, we'll assume it's because of the product, whether it's a pill or anything else. i would probably say that's just do pblsti ywwilw have that. my objection to the kneepads was not that they were promoting, fur t tiebetwne ol. the drug industry and fda, one thing that i was wondering if you're going to mention any dad is the one thing renewed this lesln rutiz a ol t ffr edug industry in order to

have reviews of their applications approved the projects that they're putting her there. and so, how this carries on like i said it is waiting for that come up in the bok. t s abgpthat fda's getting this funding by exposed via possible alternative? to talk about cutting the size anhe must collegial between ascii and the come needs. what canb time in catreier >> ctain i am not the only one who tals abou this in many peoples that is way too close you know, i feel that ascii is way, way ned. t i rubuheth lfmys n food. there's souch into that they're not able to do. likehe imported stuff that we don't know what the heck is in there. i feel like they need to do much cenltponame

edany. whoubayo can see tracks that shouldn't have beenpproved. some i sort of think it didn't change anything to match. i'm income in the same problems were already the. >>cimo you kind of ms section by saying, you know, fda is doing the bidding of drug companies in terms ofaking these apprals i' esa sad, as we'll get into big food, the big food section. but right now looking at the drug approvals, is there any think tank as that we talke about a number of things, but opn, wisinigwog right in sort of the drug

approval? >> guest: well, of course there's so many. i guess i would add that one of e drugs that da approves that are not popularly known,ostoemfs have hundreds and hundreds of drug reviewers and ihink maybe most of them are really wel sohat they are dong adly as lpph wh h ig buster drugs and helping pharma with the business model. so think there's a lot that it's almost if it doesn't harm you, but in onetc. erent ekd t state drives the highest many people and i really blame fda. >> host: we are going to get a break w.

>> we are aware of something that is really a mess. it appears that we are in bad shape. they talked about the four young this is a test the press is looking into it. and so i think a lot about it and i have written up whati have found aboutttn t really sd

me, the whole situation shocked me. there are different aspects within it. the contents of that would be lot of drugs that nobo has stbecae s no mehove already had traumatic brain injury som of theg ehv iih whd t en i begin to think that this is just criminal that tse people come back -- i began researching, obviously,te drug. you hear a lot about this drug still.

these people who follow military ca scr arest and heart problems. the fda said no, it didn't. very recently they said yes, it did. th was a complete reversal of the moning. >> s t up eycntacted you. was the next step to travel to west virginia and human some of these families, wt did you find there? w what i found that ilike? found so interesting was that ptsd was not just from the iraq and afghanistan war. gregsarelmoslikeup

what i learned, like one veteran said, you cannot shoot at people or get shot at yrself without iqti why everyone didn't have it. one man talks about coming back to the same joafter deployment and nothing has changed -wa dewindt u' th.ure o waocat ht s ocd at how they recover psychologically after the afghanistan and iraqi deot. thdscussion in the book with the suicide rates correlating with these veterans receiving drug cocktails. how difficult is it separate homuch of this could be

attributed to th rgso o ttefortme o the isolation that veterans expresso may come back? how do you feel like the drugs late specifilly, i guess, to the suicide rate? >> there are several diffent aner t onugt -- one class of drugs that is widely used are the ssri anpresnts. theyre hhlt ey not even begin it. why we are having people on this drugs is incompetence will. that is one aspect to it for the other pecttuc gh believe hey are

putting a adai thr ug hy t uhe down -- the anxiety and despair and paranoia, but it's going to come up. i think we forget that these things can be worked out th ofeson ei ne y my ok in which one young man who did die, he tells his mom when he tried to talk aboua fiht in rq, his abirnte thorthe are shoving him off. that would be an example of not letting somebody process their experience. i believe these drs, i think a lot of the doctors think they are helping the soldiersbut wca d o help

this? you talk about the support group. is it that you feel like there should be more of those types of groups a less drugs? is that something to be a should be doing? e they doing enough of it actually, d yo talk aut , gs, ihth did you talk and find out what they were doing this regard? i am curious to hear what they said in response to some of the questions you might have about it. o think i talk to any va directors for doctors rectally. one thing that imentioned in my book that i find outrageous is that some of shaevtan mira doctors that are consultants. i think that is just criminal, i don't see how that could be.

seroquel is good for ptsd, one of them says. iale iheinurernment? wrinkly am not going to interview him because i am already cious. generally speaking, how he could say some of the things -- there are some really good people who sethepol ol say get the big footprint out of there. i have to add that government linure t programs like this, ltindy to be a part of it. it is not like military psychiatrists. they mean well. but there is a huge demographic of potentialut

>>h ioing to switch gears a little bit and go on to the second half of the book, which is called big food. you tlk about dvertising and this time we are alking about the i. even the celebrities with the milk mustaches. i'm wondering why you started there, and what you see is the danger with milk? it is something that mos people ink armle. mo peoe gr up in i eiretehe g sleep, have a glass of milk. what is different now than maybe 10 or 15 yrs ago? >> well, as you know, i have a chapter called we are drinking what? dienthk,fcourse,s the growt the bovine growth hormone which s made by monsanto and sold it s ored with this.geu.

the first thing wrong with milk would be that. smrsautswh er now. that was the worst issue with milk. the second was factory farming, which is a very intensive drug related way of raising animals to the jerry cals ante bifrle secl filled with jokes. so theyare nt ike yo steak use. ey thecdd' sopopidedr

milk, they are getting a drug cocktail in it. >> when you decided to talk antioticse dresues lie ikan ugheasn t attention being given to a lot of these issues straight there has been some growin awareness in american culture. you no,e o o d ery hi discussion of food and the dangers of what is in our food, and what people could be doing and what kind of choices they could be making in terms of what they are putting on their plae? >> that is a very good question. like st fdataot. with this book, "born with a junk food deficiency", when i

really begin examining therugs wa appalled.si i don't know if you want to talk about the drug letso-s is a drug, most of the drugs are given o having a most are fast and they make more money. but this one s[nbl okay, so what i would like to know, having researched th book, his wife these drugs are not labeled and my people are not aware of them? because of se cases like that were obviouslye eang t 'mios ya ul favorite one to talk about.

what is it about that one? >> what is most striking is that the were on an honor system that the farmer oroeat- he ntho,e d really know. the other thing about that drug i mentioned, when it was fir drom aetkiarrmcledth g. d hhat from the fda. the drug is an author and a an ie.ant, and itaus hypr amawswnng at kids were eating it. >> so is it a sense that a lot of these companies are hiding this information by not labeling it as such? again, we go back to the

shou peoe be awa fch sdbelog for, making surthat people have organic food. is this a halfstep really knowing what is in food? whats the role the coser we st dandcnrs >> i think it constructive example of consumer power was reported by the nearimes two years ago. enough pe o ng-w oueole get angry, i think people, i think it would go away rely quickly if they get angry about thisrug. consumers canressure their ocerch a e hooos et ha t others.

i think certainly organic is better than the standad, you know? but the role of the consur, which was the pot of is dr to be skeptical and say wait a minute. >> i have to ask. heil ei, this is something that you eat when your kid. you still eat meat? >> i personally do not eat meat. i've never been a meat pern. i quit eating meat at about 16 yearold redthat is can't get good recommendations to eat here orthere. i'd don't think it's nutritionally necessary. you can even, there are many things you don't have to eat. no, i don' get

thisyf the consumer to get safer meat? but that is still an option we can just turn away from me in ener? >> iind of agree with what i av elpule ys this. he is eating less meat. i think what has happened to us as a nation is because it's so cheap tat people eat meat all day long and we are sufferin inren drthre a would say it really isn't, you know, that good for you. someources are awful of the ug are definitely eating too

much meat. and i always get a kick out of this milk and meat thin were our cilizations ifou dot yik and you will get osteoporosis and get hunched over. when you look at this country, we look worse than they do. we have too much protein. it is with the question of going ck t othfo tha arshep.'s d uafv >> you also talk about hunting in this book. there is an interesting part, i think i'm you talk about several things. there was a portiowhere u discuss, ielie itasdo yes, it's right here on the page. >> madonna has a quote for you have more respect for food when you go rougandse

ocof alve g to. when you're in the forthcoming you look at the leaves in the trees and you have a lot of time to meditate. has anyone told man that he can look at thee nd ls sohunting something that should be done away with or is it something that can be done humanely as well? >> that is a very inresting question. i'm goi to cover that were in my nexo many people respect [inaudible] and t there is a respect for nter sir n b ntg. sarah palin had been hunting.

metimes they let he animal lifeown d dempos the don'usei, -- >> that was another interesting aspect. th id that yregi e pang aaj fipren cig d c y e a gun and you get picture something. and i thought that was kind of a curious thing to put in there. but whdo you think that is persistent in our outr y picig t hrsin out and shooting deer if they are boys. haomgenouyimage, evn i

, hunting. mostlywhat we have is a really strong [inaudible] i think people wantedto look to our lcedof in go p against the normal is a civilian. i don't even think they could be arrested. a lot of us are sucking u. >> you imaginehat they were going to see that again therin s mitt romney or president obama out there? >> this is great stuff to touch on. u aemiom a chon e it very big gun thing. maybe they had enough violence,

i don't know. i don't see it coming out like ioiocne on in that vein of legislative lawmakers or whatever you want to call it to lawmakers and w they impact the image of, you know, hunting and the discussion about food. you mentioned in the booksome giivtith wms taken. legislation by the late ted kennedy and bob doyle and others who have tried to change the standards of meat production and whdouinkenw are kp. s,er ofison t ainatou he been watching for that you are kind of hoping that congress will push through anytime soon in relation to this? >> as you know,the da ce, erstand it was voluntary, which in my humble

opinion makes it useless. this stuff has to be regulated. antibiotics are kind of the prits. ingredient to lot of voargiha. 8, outlkabo ted kennedy's bill, but we also -- if you try to regulate use of tiniscoges capitol hill and the fda backed down. it made me sick. theyaid hat w an't rai al cs anddia ducks without it arrives. of course they can. but what they are saying is we won't give up these profits. you know, to me, that is a public health issue.

ha y t nt activities, in new york they have ordered fda to continue the withdrawal of saru,ab use of economics and animals -- is this a move for a good direction for animals? >> i think it's fu. i don't fault the fda. they went up against antibiotic use i chickens and it took five or 10 yes for the fda to get rid of that, but they did. i think it's a good trend. youko, vy ifi to go up against it.

but i think it's a wonderful trend that we see happening here >> see think this is sething puo och the way ontnueon theyhink heatti suept rian ainst physicians. what physicians see as the lifecycle of a product, a lot of it is antibiotic resistant infections that are really killineple -- you have a community acquired antibiotic resistance - if that happens, yet they will have to do something. you can't have people

the other drugs, again, i hate to say it, but one only people start dying will people say what was going on with that cow? i think that it s -- a lot of them won't eat the food that we eat becausof the o >> y know, when you ultimately helphpe -isaoyou started planning, and what you hope readers take away from it? >> well, you know, as i said, i

hope people will be cynical and skeptical about things that they aretold. it is what i hoped for in the sense -- they took wnabl e g m md t boire a rt amount of messaging that is going on, taking drugs and eating the food, then they are kind of like mad and angry bu.ause, you know, i pops the i hope people feel i'm glad i read the book. this is great. i'm really happy with how many ople are being reached. ontigilidica esalad t.

>> will kind of feedback are you getting om the medical community or any kind of animal rights activists, public consumers, the agencies themselves, they ha eomthe fdae has he been getting? >> well, policy people and yet the people havbeen reading it, and certainly animal eo obviously, obama is not going to send me a christmas card and i have maybe five times already heard some differentdrug companies basically asking you to shut up. any caab their health, health practitioners, or those of polcy.

we talked about today, it is a pocy usio until you write about hunting, but what is th next step in the journey ofrying to expose is what you see, i dont know how uwolt,hathr g d these companies -- what would happen after this? >> i think i'm going to work up a follow-up book read them when u cover more areasesid thisne. drine depth.uld ke t and ao the pracces of ldfeniatonketh